Bridging the Political Divide

During this episode, we are joined by Bev Horstman and Kelly Zimmerman from Braver Angels to learn about the upcoming community workshops to help bridge the political divide. To learn more about the workshops and to register, visit https://www.montgomeryohio.gov/braver-angels-bridging-the-political-divide-workshops/.

Transcript

Matthew Vanderhorst: 0:06

Welcome to the Montgomery Insider Podcast. It's a look at upcoming events and other information about the city of Montgomery. Thank you for joining us. I'm your host, Matthew Vanderhorst.

Amy Frederick: 0:16

And I'm Amy Frederick. In this episode, we welcome Bev Hausman and Kelly Zimmerman of Braver Angels. Braver angels is a volunteer led movement to bridge the partisan divide. Braver angels in the city of Montgomery are working together on four workshops. Before we discuss those workshops and what they're all about, let's talk about Braver Angels and your mission.

Bev Horstman: 0:36

It's nice to be with you today. So thank you. We're looking forward to the four workshops that Kelly and I have been worked on. Um, Braver angels really started. We're pretty excited in Ohio in December of 2016. Um, after the November election, which was at that point in time between Trump and Hillary Clinton, um, three of our co-founders came together to say, what could we do about the divide that seems to be going on in our country? And they actually held a workshop in December in Lebanon, Ohio, and it was to bring together what we would call reds and blues and, uh, see if we could get people to talk across the partisan divide. It was a full weekend workshop, unlike our workshops now. And, um, it was a success when there's an actual videotape that was done of our second red blue workshop that was done in March of 2017. And, um, and we would love for people to be able to get into our website and look at that. If you'd like that documentary. It's a powerful documentary. People start off on sitting opposite each other, and the next thing you know, by the end, uh, we've got people's got their arms around each other's shoulders and they're laughing. And, uh, so it showed that we had something that was successful, moved to a bus tour from there. Did, uh, 40 more red blue workshops throughout the United States realized that there was a need and formed the, uh, nonprofit In 2017. Since then, we've grown tremendously. We are in all 50 states. We work through alliances. We actually have a very strong, active alliance here in the Cincinnati area that would be serving Montgomery as well. And we are a grassroots organization. About 75% of our organization is actually, um, facilitated and run by those of us who are volunteers, of which Kelly and I are both volunteers. Um, we, uh, work on, uh, both skills workshops and discussion workshops. Um, our goal is to bridge the partisan divide. Kelly, anything you'd like to add?

Kelly Zimmerman: 2:50

Um, no. I mean, I think you covered the the kind of the the organization's history, and and you know what, the kind of the broad mission is. Um, and, yeah, I mean, I think, you know, it really is all about, um, you know, uh, fostering respectful dialogue, um, I'm embracing, you know, different opinions and and ultimately it's not about changing someone's mind, but, um, to, to, you know, respectfully exchange your ideas with them. And ultimately, what ends up happening is we change how we view each other as a result of that.

Bev Horstman: 3:25

Yeah, we bring the humanity back in, which is the real, um, problem with polarization in our country today is, is that we've lost each other's humanity, and we have started stereotyping each other and grouping people together. And if we can get back to understanding, I'm of an old enough generation that you you saw parties work together before and and so it's important to try to get back to that because we all love our country. And that's the importance of this.

Amy Frederick: 3:56

So so let's talk about the four workshops that we're putting on together between Braver Angels in the city of Montgomery. Our first one is Saturday, August 2nd at 930 to 1130 at Tiger Lodge. Let's talk about what depolarizing ourselves is all about.

Bev Horstman: 4:12

Actually, the title really speaks for itself in so many ways. Um, we just talked about polarization and how it's been growing in our country, and it's growing internationally as well. So it's just not our country. Um, and it's, uh, depolarizing ourselves is really a journey inward. It really starts with us looking at ourselves to see what what how are we contributing? What are we doing, by the way? We talk of the way we stereotype. What can we do internally? Um, and with our approaches to be able to look at how we can contribute to depolarizing the situation and not contribute to it, it is once you're aware of what's going on, skills wise, it becomes a conscious decision rather than an unconscious influencing at that point in time. So it is for those people who will want to look and see what we do when we are with our own group that we're feeling comfortable with, and how easy it gets to stereotype and talk about others differently. And so it's a good journey. It's a I've been through it multiple times, and each time it seems like I learned something different. So.

Matthew Vanderhorst: 5:21

So what could somebody expect from attending that? What would they anticipate?

Bev Horstman: 5:26

It's one of our skills workshops. So it really focuses on skills. It focuses on internal looking at the skills that are needed to be able to talk with others who think the same as us, and then that allows us to begin to look at our second workshop, which is how do we look at it with people who are different from us. But it is a skills based workshop, so we're not teaching you anything that isn't known already. These are skills that we learned respectfully back in, in, in high school and, and junior high. We've just kind of misplaced them as we've grown up.

Kelly Zimmerman: 6:02

So and one thing of just about the format of the workshops, um, you know, there's it's a combination of, you know, introducing some of these skills and strategies and things that you can apply, but then also breaking into small groups to be able to kind of practice these skills that you are just, you know, exposed to. So it's a combination of, you know, kind of learning and also doing in the small groups for the practice.

Matthew Vanderhorst: 6:29

And so you, you there's a good segue into the second one. This skill is for disagreeing. Better talk a little bit about that one.

Bev Horstman: 6:36

Well, the challenge becomes, um, that communication breaks down with somebody who might think differently with us in just about 30 to 45 seconds. Um, I like to say the wheels fall off the bus really quickly. And so skills for disagreeing better is really focusing on how do we listen better and understand why somebody thinks the way they are, which is differently than than we are. I actually say in the workshop, we need to look at the proportion of our face. We have two ears and one mouth. We need to use it in that proportion. When we're really talking to people who have different opinions from ours. It is amazing when you start to ask questions and you listen how you can find that. Why somebody's personal experiences influence them differently doesn't mean that you're going to necessarily agree with their opinion or where they come from, but it brings back that understanding of why somebody has chosen to view things the way they do. Um, we all have our own fact base that we look at. And so it's important to really look at, um, what can we do to break that pattern and really actively listen? Uh, same thing for what Kelly had said earlier. All of our workshops are really skills based, where they give you information, and then we get to practice and we get to practice in a safe place. This is a safe place to do it in, and it's much safer to do it here where we're together than it is than when you go out. You feel better because you already practice some of those skills.

Amy Frederick: 8:11

So all right so let's talk about our third one. It's called walk a mile in my shoes. And that is Saturday October 4th from 930 to 1130 again at the Lodge. What can someone expect from that one. Tell us about that.

Bev Horstman: 8:25

This is a very strong, educationally focused workshop where we're really looking at how media is really influencing us right now, what kind of impact it has on us. And it's a broad range. You know, when I was growing up in the 70s and earlier 60s and 80s, we only had, up until the 70s, three major news stations that we looked at, including. And then we had PBS. And so all of our nation was really getting our news from the same sources. And then when the internet came along and the, you know, websites began to grow, and then you got cable television and you have new shows that have to run 24 over seven. Now there's a there's a tremendous amount that has changed. And so we get bombarded with news and doing that. We tend to listen to the news sources that we're comfortable with, that support our perspectives. And so this is really educating ourselves again to really broaden our perspective and say, let's look at media. Let's look at how they're driven. Let's look at our news sources. Let's look at other news sources that are out there. And let's try to be more discerning so that we have an understanding of how we're being influenced. Most of the time, you can make a better decision when you understand how something is influencing you, rather than just being influenced by it without realizing the consequences. It, uh, Kelly and I are both really excited about this workshop. We've both done a lot of work on it and are looking forward to this one in particular.

Kelly Zimmerman: 10:02

So yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, this is one that, you know, when we when we talk to people and we, we explore and get different people's perspectives on the, you know, the sources of polarization. Media is almost always the first thing that they mentioned, right? Media and social media. Sure. So so this really kind of dives into that as, as it is a significant contributor to the polarization that we're experiencing. So I think it's important to kind of shine a light on that. Um, you know, the more that people can learn about that, that thing that's influencing them, the better they're equipped to counteract it or at least consume it in a more responsible, mindful way. Um, so I think I think it's going to be helpful in that regard. And then, of course, you know, we're going to provide some, you know, some tips or strategies that hopefully can, um, help them cultivate a a more kind of healthier news diet, if you will.

Bev Horstman: 10:54

And as always, this workshop takes the same approach that our other three workshops that we're going to, two that we've talked about and the one upcoming. Um, it will be, you know, providing information, looking at skills and then breaking into small groups to be able to, to discuss and really learn from each other. That's the exciting thing.

Amy Frederick: 11:15

So okay. And then we have a fourth workshop. It's called Family and Politics. And I think this is a big one and it's timed perfectly. We have it November 1st, which is a Saturday from 930 to noon, right before Thanksgiving before families come together. But I saw a workshop with you and our Montgomery Citizens Leadership Academy went through. We go through it one night in our sessions. And one thing you said that really struck me is, um, you know, when we were younger, people said who they voted for if they disagreed, if it was one party versus another, they kind of went on with their lives. And it wasn't a it wasn't a big deal. But now I feel like so many people have gotten to the point with their family members. If somebody voted for this person and the other person voted for that person, it's a problem now and they're arguing and they don't want to sit down and have Thanksgiving together. So tell us about this session and how that might help.

Bev Horstman: 12:04

Yeah. And as people will learn as they go through our other sessions as we have become less involved with social organizations. Our political identity has become stronger. It is. It is replaced in many ways, other people's social identity that has emerged in. I'm going to use the word. It's a strong word, but it has invaded families. So we have now become so much that our nation looks at our political identity as our very important identity over even our family identities. And this has been a huge change in our country. This has not been something that has been around for a long time. I, I laugh and I, I say, you know, when I first started dating my husband, my first ten questions out of my mouth weren't who did you vote for? And that's what happens within families. Families automatically think that because they grew up in the same family, they should have the same political beliefs. And that's not true. And so now we are in a point where families are extremely divided. Marriages have actually moved to, you know, splitting over it. And so it's become hard for families to get together in certain times, in certain celebrations. And that's sad because we've lost our family identity. So how do you deal with those personalities? They're really four personality types within families that we've kind of looked at, and we actually identify what those roles are, and then how you can work around trying to have communication with them respectfully or, or even how to gracefully back out of those conversations if need be. It is our most requested workshop, as you said, Amy, as we move towards the holidays, Thanksgiving, Christmas or any of the holidays, whether it's the Jewish or Muslim, any of those holidays at this point in time become a very family oriented and can cause real angst. And so this gives you very specific tools and ways to deal with it during that point in time. It is it will be our longest workshop. It will be three hours, because we actually really practice in this one and really understand our small group experience here is really important. We laugh. Everyone has an Uncle Fred. Sorry, no personalization. You know that that might, you know, cause an issue. And how do we deal with that?

Amy Frederick: 14:30

Um, I think that's actually a really good point and a really good evening. So we have a design that you you don't have to sign up for every single one you can pick and choose. Correct.

Bev Horstman: 14:39

Correct.

Amy Frederick: 14:41

And then all of it's free. You can just come at and then but you have to participate on some level.

Bev Horstman: 14:46

Absolutely. We would ask everyone it's a small group experience, so nobody has to participate in the larger group. But the small group experience you break into small groups which are probably around depending on how many people there are about four of you to be able to just really talk among yourselves, um, build relationships with each other and it's safe. And we trust each other here. And we know that this is a safe environment in which to do that.

Amy Frederick: 15:11

So yeah, and I can attest to that. Like I said, Matthew and I have sat through an evening with you during our Montgomery Citizens Leadership Academy, and it's a safe place. I think you're you're both very calming. And, you know, you ask for participation and people can participate if they want to. There really wasn't, you know, an argument or people getting upset. It's a calm and safe environment. And I think that's so important in this, this day and age. So I'll ask you, Bev, first, what's the one thing that you hope people get out of these seminars or workshops?

Bev Horstman: 15:44

I think the biggest thing is for us to be able to communicate with each other again and see each other's humanity, um, and stop stereotyping. I'm very grateful. Um, we, all of us at Brave Angels is the city of Montgomery is really hosting this and doing this because it is really important on a community level. Um, we need to get back to seeing each other as community participants. You all love our nation.

Amy Frederick: 16:10

I agree. What do you think, Kelly? What do you hope people get from these workshops?

Kelly Zimmerman: 16:15

I think, you know, for me, and one of the reasons that I got involved with Brave Angels is I saw political polarization as a pretty significant source of suffering for a lot of people. You know, whether it's through strained relationships with their family or friends or, you know, whatever the case may be. So I think if if they can get from this, this is a somewhat of an antidote to that, that suffering. Right. A lot of times, you know, what we hear is when people come out of these workshops that they they feel hopeful. Right. They, they it's almost like, hey, there's a different way to interact with politics and different ideas than what I've kind of heard from the media or what I've kind of built up in my head as like, this is a, you know, completely hopeless thing. So yeah, I hope it, you know, just gives people some hope. And they see that there is a different way to interact with, uh, alternate perspectives and things like that in a way that's respectful and productive and does not have to always end up in a in an argument or a fight.

Amy Frederick: 17:15

Okay. So if people want to learn more about your organization, what's the best way they can do that? Like your website?

Bev Horstman: 17:20

Yeah. We'd encourage everyone to go to Braver angels.org. Um, there's a wealth of information there. Um, there are online workshops. There are one on one conversations that people can have with somebody who think differently. You can look at the documentary, you can see our news sources. You can see where we are throughout the country. Our alliance is you can, uh, get a lot more information. So we encourage everyone to visit WW Angel's all one word.org.

Amy Frederick: 17:48

And if you're interested in signing up for any or all of the workshops, we really want you to see you at all of them. But if you can only make a few of them, we have that information at Montgomery, Ohio gov. Right there on the homepage. Just click and register. Or you can call City Hall at 513891 2424.

Matthew Vanderhorst: 18:05

I just one thing before we go, uh, I just want to thank you for helping us with these workshops. You've been with us for the years through MCLa, which has been a great success. Um, and the city recently received a grant from the season good Foundation to with the purpose of addressing political divide. And, uh, we just thought this was a natural. So we came to you and you said, yeah, let's do this. And so we put this program together. Um, we're really looking forward to it. You don't have to be a resident to attend. Anybody can attend. Um, so if you know somebody who think might be able to get some help, then.

Bev Horstman: 18:44

Bring.

Matthew Vanderhorst: 18:44

Them along. Bring them.

Bev Horstman: 18:45

Along.

Amy Frederick: 18:47

Is there anything that we haven't asked that you wanted to add?

Bev Horstman: 18:51

No. I think you've done an excellent job in terms of covering everything, and we look forward to seeing you all. Please come join us. Um, we are honored that the City of Montgomery is taking this grant and using it for these purposes. Uh, it's a very good use of time, energy and finances. So.

Amy Frederick: 19:09

Well, thank you for joining us, Kelly and Bev. And thank you for listening.